Student Interview$10k/mo to $32.7k/mo

Let's do it.

All right. Three, two one. Hey everybody, Brandon Miles here. Today I have Pedro Cortes of Cortes Design. We're gonna be talking about how Pedro went from about 10,000 a month to 26,000 a month in less than 30 days, like, we're not finished with the month. And, yeah. So Pedro, before we get into all that, why don't you just kind of briefly introduce yourself, tell everybody a little bit about you and what you do?

Yeah. So, basically, what I do is I help like software companies change how they explain their product on the website. So basically, change the messaging. It's pretty much around copywriting. And what happens is, over the many results I've delivered, just... They get better conversions, they get more sales out of the website that they had, right? Yeah, that's pretty much what I do and that's my niche.

That's awesome man. How long have you been doing that? Yeah, I've been doing that for like full time for almost two years. Yeah, for pretty much two years, full time. And I've been doing it like part time for like four years or so.

Excellent man. So, yeah. Like, tell me more about your story. Like what made you decide to wanna work with software companies? Why marketing? Like, what drew you to this?

Yeah. I just... I started off as a designer, just because I saw like some of the programs. The way I thought about design is I thought like, I saw designers or for example, some of the apps that the companies were designing, they weren't really optimized for asking or having the person using it spend more money or activate the user faster and all that stuff. So, I always looked at as in a marketing perspective. But I just thought the design was like the solution, right? So, it then slowly evolved into marketing. And because I was interested in tech, I just ended up choosing SaaS companies, right? And I slowly realized that copywriting was pretty natural to me. And it wasn't natural to the SaaS founders at all. So it was good on both ends.

That's awesome man. So, how about design? Like, what drew you to design? Is that something you studied in the past or just kind of have a background in that picking it up?

It was like, very easy for me to pick it up because I used to draw as a kid. So everything that I would look at, I would/could immediately reconstruct and just do it exactly the same. So, within a couple of months I got hired to the biggest agency in Portugal at the time, and I was like 17. I turned 17 like a week before that.

No way.

Yeah, it was like way too easy.

And you-- And that agency is probably hiring like college grads and other people like that.

Not-- All of them were like in their late 20s, early 30s. So it was a little bit awkward. But I didn't stay long 'cause I wanted to be an entrepreneur. So, like, yeah, I've tested this job and I like it. You know everything is perfect. So, yeah, I had to make that work, took me a while.

So before you started that job, you knew you wanted to be an entrepreneur, or did that job make you think, "Oh, I wanna work for myself."?

No. I knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur. But I wanted to, 'cause obviously, I was like 17. So, even though I'm young now, I was even younger then. And I wanted to confirm my assumptions, right? Can I... Like, would I be able to work for a few years and then sell my company? Or am I just as stubborn as I think I am? And yeah, it was the second option. Lasted three weeks.

What sort of things did you draw as a kid growing up?

I just really liked cars and animals because they were like very weird. I realized that I didn't... I wasn't like creative at all, I just looked at it as a puzzle. Like deconstructing the image and making it look the same. Nothing creative about that was cool.

But I mean, that's like the kind of idea, like you said, dissecting and reverse engineering it, breaking it down. I feel like creatives who think systematically like that, do much better. 'Cause just like you said, I can see why you'd be more like goal oriented and function oriented when it came to design, which is the same thing. In my mind its like having that marketing head, you're always like, "Well, what's the goal here?" Not just like, "Does it look pretty?" Or, "Is it creative?" You know?

At that at that time, obviously, I didn't know that. But over the last few years, I obvious-- I started looking, I started noticing the patterns from childhood style until now, that's why I noticed that. It was more about a puzzle than anything else.

Cool man, that's really cool. So, coming back to kind of Cortes Design today, what do you think makes you guys especially unique?

Yeah, I mean, I work... I really work by myself, so it's really just about me. But what really makes me unique is, for example, in this industry, in SaaS, there's all these things that people are saying about landing pages. And pretty much I just say the opposite. Because they make no sense, right? And that's part of the reason why I got into this, because I really liked studying psychology on the side, right? Just as a hobby, just like understanding that. And then I noticed every single thing that they were suggesting wouldn't just make any sense in terms of like, human nature, right? So I just decided to figure that out by myself. And yeah. Basically, there were no copywriting principles applied to software. For some reason, there's like they had never heard of it, right? So I really just came up with my own formulas, came up with my own framework. And like I said, people are doing X thing, I'm doing something completely different that helps me stand out. And it really attracts a lot of clients. 'Cause when they watch my contents, they will look at this, "Oh, this is exactly what I was looking for." Or, "You put into words what I was thinking." Or, "You're the only guy that I ever heard this from." And so on. I kind of do that on purpose anyway.

That's really cool man. Yeah, that resonates with me. I mean, I have a software background as well. Like, why do you think that is? Like, why do you think software companies have been slow to adopt like copywriting, direct response, things like that?

I think they're all about the hottest strategy or the new-- Like, in software, like being a new s-- Like being a new version, even if it's only slightly better than the previous version of another product is already considered good. Which is no way that you can sell something that is just slightly better, right? So, I think they have like different values of the way they value like a product or something. Its just a lot of engineers, its just a community of too many engineers, right? And they all think the same and then that's what happens.

Interesting. Yeah, I mean, I think kinda what you're getting at, it's like there's that whole phenomenon of like product led growth. And a lot of them think that if they just build the right product, that-- I think product led growth is a valid growth strategy, but, it can be co-opted by somebody to rationalize that all they have to do is just build a good product. Like, something that's a little bit better and then everything will take care of itself. And then they realize it doesn't. And then they need... They go looking for somebody like you. And then you come in and you help them.

Yeah, yeah. It's exactly how they think. And the product led growth movement, even kind of justify what they thought in their head, even though it's-- For most companies this is not ideal at all.

Interesting man, super interesting. So, yeah. So, let's go back like maybe the month before we were working together, what were you trying to do? What were you trying to tackle before we started working together?

Yeah, so there were a lot of things, right? And here's like the main thing; I already got or already had like a sort of predictable source of leads in terms of... And I didn't get as many, but I honestly got somewhat of a predictable source of leads on LinkedIn from publishing my contents. The problem is, I didn't know, am I getting unqualified leads? Is my sales process bad? Is my price too high? Should I add a traffic part? Or should I offer like a traffic part to my offer? Should I do this? Should I do that? Right? There's only these two or three things that you need to do as a consultant that really make or break the business, right? So, I already had like a few leads. I was just always confused of what to do next. And when we worked together, you told me, "Okay, let's focus on this, then we have that fixed. Then do this after, then you have that pillar fixed." Then once I noticed 30 days passed and I have all those pillars and now I just close clients, I just close like a bunch of clients in a row.

Yeah, so-- Awesome man. So, you were-- At the time you had... You knew there was like-- You kinda... You knew like, there were four or five different levers that you could be pulling to grow the business, but you didn't know which one to pull in what order. And also like, wasn't the revenue a bit inconsistent at the time?

Yeah, that's exactly it. Like when it comes to business, you can get 95% right and then if you miss the last 5%, you're not gonna close the deal, right? So there was one thing that stood out to me when we went through the sales training is, at the point where you mention, "Okay, this is where the sale starts." That's where I ended every single sales call that I had. So, I'm not even sure how I closed this many clients over the last few years with that. And I also was a little bit pissed, I wasn't happy about filing this, I was pissed because I thought, "Man, I lost probably 150 grand over the last couple of years just because of this stupid mistake that I wasn't even aware of."

So, yeah, that's frustrating, frustrating as hell. Before we get into that, like, so... Let's talk about... So you had all these different things, it sounded like what you're trying to do is you're trying to figure out kind of what was your plan for the next phase. And so, like, what was-- Did you have a certain growth goal in mind that you were trying to move toward?

Yeah, I wanted to make 20k consistently. I've done it once in the past, like a couple months before we started working, but then the revenue went down because I wanted to stay on 20k like consistently. And then it's just almost like the confirmation bias kicks in, right? I wanna make 20k a month, then I'll look at the number of calls that I have, seems like I'm not gonna make it. Then I'm extra sensitive to a few things that I noticed in the calls, where I would just think, "This person doesn't have the money." Or, "This person is not a good fit." Where you taught me that, okay, we should massage this a little bit better. Or maybe you were just being a little bit too... Maybe just overthinking these things. Or... And really, just be more aware of those situations. 'Cause there were clients that I closed like this month that I've never thought. Like a couple of months ago, I would've never thought I would be able to close clients like those, right?

Awesome. Okay, cool. So you're trying to get to 20,000 a month. And you wanted to do it not just in a burst, but consistently. Had you started to take any action toward that goal? Like, did you have a certain plan in play before we started together? Had you tried anything to do that in the past?

Yeah. I mean, I really narrowed everything down to a couple of things. So I was just getting more calls, like getting more strategy sessions, more people-- Get more people to reach out. And just sell more deals, right? And then try to get a few referrals from clients, but that never really had like a process to doing that. So, yeah. I already had like narrowed it down to like a couple pillars. I just, like I told you, I didn't know what was next and I was misinterpreting the signals. So for you, for example, if I noticed that in some of the calls that we... When we talked about this, I thought I should do one thing, so I assumed, for example, one of my clients, they didn't pay up until the first call. And I will assume, "Okay, this guy is not committed." And obviously, we'll have to fire them before we even get started. And you were like, "No man, people are busy, this thing happens, here's... Just jump on that call, try to get them to pay you on that call. And then you'll take it from there, it doesn't mean anything. And then you can always fire them if they're not a good client." That's exactly what happens, I close that client. And that happened again today for another €5,000, which is like almost six grand in US dollars. That happened again, right in the same month. So, that was already two deals that wouldn't close, just for a few assumptions of just because I was working by myself, I didn't have anyone to ask that was like way more experienced than me.

So, yeah. So, I get like, going back to before we worked together, what were your frustrations? Like, kind of try-- You knew a couple pillars but you didn't know what to do in what order, trying different things, like, what was that experience like? What were your frustrations like?

Yeah, it was super frustrating. It literally felt like the month was flying by. And I didn't know how I would get the... Like, more leads. I didn't know if the leads that were coming in would be qualified or not. So I would jump on the calls, and it was just, "Okay, another call." I'll probably just be hearing this guy that is not committed at all, has like some stupid ass goal. So he's gonna tell me, he's gonna make a million dollars within the next six months, and he hasn't even had a customer yet, like the most retarded thing ever. And I'm just gonna tell them, "Hey, we're not a good fit." And this is a polite way to go screw yourself. That's what I thought. And then, I didn't know, will I get-- Do I need to get more leads? Do I need to improve my sales process? Right? So it's all way more time focused on not knowing what to do next, rather than actually fixing it, right? Which is just frustrating. Yeah, it's just really frustrating because I get angry easily if stuff doesn't go my way. Yeah, I just like to take a lot of action and I don't like to be confused, I just like to focus on the action. And as you can see, like, I got results right away after knowing exactly what to do, 'cause you helped me, right? Those were the many frustrations. That alone is like... It just ruins your day, it makes business way too frustrating and for no reason. And you lose a bunch of money. Like, what if I had done like the almost the same revenue in the last month? That's already 20,000 more dollars that I can spend on... Well, nothing, 'cause I don't spend much. But if I wanted to, I could.

Yeah, so it sounds like... You mean, you understand the foundations of growing a consulting business. And so you were taking action, you were going through the motions, but there was something in the details that wasn't working. And for somebody like you, who just is bias towards action and you wanna see results, you're committed to doing the work, putting in the time and the hours to be doing what you're supposed to be doing, but still not getting to that 20k consistently, it must be super frustrating.

Yep, it's super frustrating.

Got it. Alright, cool. So, where did you first hear about me?

Yeah, I heard about you when you were obviously, in the same niche, when you were in software. We talked like, on and off. I saw you doing like, a couple different companies, or at least you pivoted a couple of times. Then I noticed you switched to coaching. And I noticed you did that super well. And I mean, I just didn't notice you more times, because I never used Facebook at all. I considered, started marketing on Facebook pretty much like a couple of weeks before I start noticing your contents. And then I saw, okay, this guy's doing amazing. I obviously know this guy is super sharp. Like, I really like that you were like super systematic and you got amazing results. I knew you're like the engineer type, so, you would be as systematic as me. So anyway, you weren't in the same niche, so it would like be the perfect outside perspective to help me out. And I also knew that you were getting really good at copywriting, 'cause, I mean, regardless of how good a copywriter you are, you always need an outside perspective 'cause the human brain gets biased. So, you checked all the marks so I had to go with you, it was a no brainer.

That's awesome man. Was there anything in particular that piqued your interest? Like, where like, I feel like you mentioned something about the interviews that I had been doing.

Yeah, I mean, I didn't know exactly how you did, like how you got the results for the clients. But you got such good results. And I knew that you would simplify everything. Like I-- 'Cause I wanted to simplify and eliminate every, like pretty much every unnecessary task, right? 'Cause I like to systematize everything. And I know you were like focusing on such tiny principles. 'Cause I remember you posting a video on Facebook, where you were drawing out like a few principles. And then you're getting all these results for clients. It didn't really matter how you got the results, lets just say, I just wanna hear more about the offer, just know the details and just move forward. And that's what we did.

Yep.

We moved forward like in less than 24 hours.

Yeah man, I remember... I do remember though, like, I think maybe it was after you signed up, but it was kind of right after you're like, "Dang, all your interviews are so addicting." Do you remember saying that?

Yeah. Yeah, I kept watching after I was already your client.

So, okay, were there any in particular like, before you signed up that you at least thought were really interesting that were maybe in relevant niches or totally different niches than you, that piqued your interest?

Yeah, I remember one. I remember one girl that got from 2k to 18k. And I noticed her offer wasn't like as expensive as mine. So, she was charging like 1500 and then started charging like 2500 or something. And I noticed. Because it's very, very hard to compensate for a lower price in terms of volume, like, she used volume to compensate for a lower price. So I figured out, I mean, if she made 18k in that month, then she has way more volume than I have, right? So if I know I can sell, that I can keep selling at 5k, and if Harry can teach me how to get that kind of volume or to close as well as he can, then I could make way more than that. 'Cause she pretty much made 18k is like it's pretty much a 20k month. Which way-- Like charging way less, right? So I could use the same principles and make 25 or 30.

Yep.

No problem.

Yeah, I think she raised her rates to 2500 or 3500. I can't remember which one it was. But then, yeah, it was only like her second or third month in business. And it was just-- Yeah, it was amazing. So, that's cool. So, I'm glad that story resonated with you. So, as you think about what we did together, we don't have to go through play by play, every single detail. But, can you speak to maybe one, two or three really big takeaways you had from the experience so far?

Yeah, I mean, it's everything goes like hand in hand. So when I started doing the client interviews, I noticed they got way better results than what they told me in the first place. That got me excited and got like even more confidence in my offer. Then we tweaked our offer, like my offer, we tweaked it together. So, I got really excited about my offer and what we'll be doing and all that stuff. Then we tweaked how I deliver that offer slightly just in terms of timeline. And then the work with clients was even more enjoyable. And then I saw them execute faster, which makes it more enjoyable, which because of the client interviews, I started getting more referrals. Yeah, I just-- Everything is compound really fast. And it also helped me a ton with a sales process. So I was practicing sales, getting better at sales using the client interviews, realizing that customers or clients are getting better results. Like, everything goes hand in hand. And it's really like a flywheel. I can see myself doing the same things up until probably 40 or 50k, depending on how much I charge. You'll tell me what's the next step?

Dude, I'm so excited for you, this is awesome. Yep, exactly. So, it's-- Would you agree that it sounds like you were doing very similar stuff, maybe stuff that you're doing before, but you had newfound clarity on, what to do in what order and just how to do these basic things much better at like a deeper level? Was that fair?

Yeah, I mean, when we jumped on a call, like the exact pillars that you laid out, were the exact ones that I would try to figure out by myself. And I was like I told you, I didn't really know what should happen next, or a tiny little thing that was missing in each one, or maybe I wasn't doing them properly or whatever it was, right? But I knew like, you're using the same pillars, you're getting way better results, I just knew that I could improve on every single one. And improving on every single one, even if it's just a tiny bit is like you can like 3X results without that many effort. So it was a complete no brainer.

Awesome man. Can you talk a little bit about... I feel like... You even... you kind of mentioned or alluded to it earlier, massaging leads. How did your... At a high level, how did your mindset around leads change after working with me from before and after?

Yeah. I thought that people would come in. And if they thought like, that type of work should be like, done for them. So for example, someone would do the design. Or they thought that someone or for example, me, should do like all the design, that coaching wasn't really ideal, 'cause some of them think that coaching is not ideal, it's not tangible enough, it's not actionable enough. Or, maybe people that thought that they had a particular budget already defined. Like I left all of those things and just thought, "Okay, I'm not gonna make a sale, its not a good fit." And even stuff and even some people that I thought I couldn't help, right? I thought I couldn't help but then I realized I could give them clarity and we can tweak the offer a little bit to those people, so we can still close them, still help them and still get them to get the results, right? A lot of things have changed, 'cause now I believe that I should be the one convincing, "Hey, this is the best way to do it. This is the way that it gets you the best results." And with the sales practice and with the script and the training and everything, I just feel like I'm able to answer pretty much all those objections now. Like when I am surpri-- 'Cause I remember some of these calls that I had and that I did close this month. And I'll remember a few people saying, "Oh, what if we-- Wouldn't it be better if we do this a few months from now?" "Would it be better if you just do everything for me?" "Would it be better if..." I don't know, all of these questions that they had, all these reasons why I thought they wouldn't convert previously, I just addressed that objection, and they would be like, "Okay." And I thought, like previously, I thought, "No way I'm gonna close a deal." I wouldn't even make it to a strategy session. And now I was just addressing the question properly and they were just taking it and I was closing them.

Yep, I mean, I think I love it man. And the way that I just summarize it, it's like, I think most people out there think that like, leads are fully formed and they're out there and you find them. But the truth is that you have to make them. And when you figure out how to make them, it just like 10Xes your pipeline. And you have this like, abundance mindset at that point. So that's awesome to see that you've-- Anything else to add there? Any other comments?

Yeah, I mean, obviously, I would say the same thing to my clients. 'Cause for example, if they were doing a demo of their own software, they would try to assess what kind of use cases they would like to use the product for, right? And some of the problems they have and all that stuff. And do a demo based on what they wanna receive or how they're gonna use it. So it's pretty much the same thing you're doing, like, you try to convince them of the vehicle that they're using and that product and stuff like that. But, I wasn't seeing that in my own business 'cause I was just biased. Like, I didn't have that experience like, from the past or from someone else to tell me that, so.

Yep. So, and the other thing I wanted to bring up is, you told me a minute ago, like, before the interview that your close rate went up from 15% before to 70% now. Is that accurate?

Yep. So over the last few months, I closed at around 15 to 20%. But now, I haven't measured it yet. But I closed so many clients in a row and I still expect to close a couple more before the end of the month, that it probably stays around at least 70, probably even 80, right? 'Cause I honestly don't remember that many strategy sessions that didn't close this month, right? So, I'm not sure. I'm not sure what our closing rates were, at least 70% for sure.

So, that's fantastic. I'm stoked for you that that's gone up. Do you feel like... Like you were mentioning to me again, right before the interview that you thought that like sales could not be the problem. Can you just speak to that a little bit about your thought process there before we were working together?

Yeah, exactly. I mean, what happened is you would hear these objections that you think like are not answerable, right? So, they might think, "Oh, I need to think about this." Or they might say, "I can't really afford this." And that's just like the beginning. Or they might say, "I don't really understand how this--" Or for example, they might say, "How do I know that this is gonna work?" Right? "'Cause I've done something similar in the past, how do I know it's gonna work this time?" Or, for example, "I don't really see calls as being more actionable, can you just do it for me?" There a lot of these things that I thought, "Okay, this person wants this done for them." They like to focus on the products, they just would like to hire an agency to do it for them and not have to deal with it. So, I thought it was-- I thought they wouldn't be converted. I couldn't like convert them, like I couldn't like, change their beliefs in some areas. Or for example, if they thought it was like too expensive or something, or if they even thought because I was doing like a six week program, it was one call a week, they wouldn't notice, "Oh, it's like $1,000 a call, its not worth it." And I couldn't get them to believe, hey, it's about the result, why the hell are you focusing on the price if it's about the results? I was just saying that to myself? And I would assume. Okay, some of these people, like I obviously closed clients in the past with the same product, so with the same like, offer. So, I would just assume that those people didn't have the right mindset.

Yep. And where do you think like that belief is coming from? Like, were you... Did you have other sales coaches or sales scripts or advice you were using in the past that was kind of influencing your thinking at the time?

Yeah, I used several scripts. And I mean, they looked pretty solid. They looked really solid. I had like a few tips and they had like, a couple... For example, if this happens, do this or answer it in this way. they only had that for a couple objections and it wasn't too useful. The problem is, those guys were so confident about their scripts that I thought, "Okay, if I use this and if I follow it properly and if the lead is qualified, then I should be able to close one in four at least or one in five." That should be all good. That was my benchmark. And they put that in my head, right? So that was always my benchmark. So, if it didn't fit, I wouldn't say it was the script fault, I would say it's like the quality of the lead. Because the quality of the lead was in my control, right? I was generating the leads, so I was in control. That is, it wasn't like I was blaming everyone else. So I just focused on getting more qualified leads. And yeah, sometimes I would mess around with the things that were already working. And so it was very, very confusing.

Yeah, it's so interesting how that happens. Like, when we get-- And it happens to all of us, like, we'll get some idea in our head and we're like, "Well, it can't be that thing." Like it can't be our sales process because our sales process is vetted, it comes from... It's... It can't be that, the person says, this is the best sales script out there. So, yeah, that's super interesting, very interesting. Anything else to add? Any other takeaways, insights?

I mean, what I feel good about this is now I just feel like I can keep doing the same things up until 50k, right? So I can keep asking you, "Hey, Harry, which pillar should I be messing around with at this particular time?" And just focusing on doing more of that. So maybe I should focus on getting more client interviews, or focus more on the sales process again. Or increase my price, or get more leads, right? I focus on one thing at a time, that's how I like to do my work. I'm extremely focused and I'm very minimalistic when it comes to those things. And yeah, I just feel confident that I'm just gonna figure it out. And the best thing ever is I used to have this inconsistencies in the way I get the leads as well. So on some weeks, I didn't get as many leads and in other weeks, I would just randomly get like six calls in a day. Not six calls in that day, that happens often. Because I force the leads to schedule out a couple days so I can have some days for focused work. It was more like, I didn't get any leads or a notification from Calendly saying, "Oh, this guy booked a meeting." For like, a week. And then during the weekend I would get like six people booking calls. It was like so random. And in between that entire week I was just pissed, like, what am I doing? Should I be changing stuff? What the hell is happening? Right? Right now its more consistent.

That's excellent man. Yeah, it sounds like you have-- You're really confident that the tools that you have, the pillars as you say, are gonna get you to 40 to 50k. And so it's not like you need to go search for that new thing, that shiny object, that hot thing, it's like you just have to do what you're doing and just get better at it and just tune it. And you're just in kind of like a steady state now at this point.

Yeah. Because when you sell at such a high price, the cost of getting it wrong is huge, right? So, if I get it wrong or I tweak my offer and I close like one or two or I don't close one or two clients that I could have closed. That's already like five or 10 grand that I lost that month just playing around with stuff that I wouldn't or shouldn't be playing around, right? And what gives me the confidence is, hey, I wanna grow. Let me just jump on a call with Harry, ask him a few questions, just do whatever he says and not worry about anything else.

Yeah.

That's what I feel like now and it's great.

That's awesome man, that's awesome. So, and you, you think that if you had been doing this stuff maybe earlier, you would have maybe made like 150,000 more over the last 12 months?

Yeah, 100%?

Well, hey, glass half full, let's make it in the next 12, okay?

Yeah. Now, I was just thinking like, all this frustration was just like, super stupid. I could have just thought about this. Problem is I didn't really find anyone that I felt like aligned with everything that I was looking for. Because all these other people that help are coaches, they're more like... I know I just feel like this support wasn't there or it wasn't like as actionable. It was more like a course or a program than actual help. That's what I realized, 'cause I've done that in the past and I just thought after doing this, there's no way that I'm gonna do this again 'cause it's just-- Like, you watch the training and like I was saying about like the sales tips that you're giving for the clients, I assumed we were going to do it this way. And then, I mean, I still was supposed to do it like in a completely different way. So, it's just a game changer, right?

Yeah.

And for every stage that I wanna focus on, I just wanna hire someone else and not have to deal with it again.

Yep, yep. So, have any other areas of your life personally or professionally improved?

Of course, I mean, if I wasn't as frustrated with business, then I could just be like more relaxed in other areas, right? And then there are a few things, for example, if... Lets say, if I'm at the middle of the month and I didn't close any clients yet, then I'll obviously be a little bit more anxious and a little bit more frustrated, right? And I was-- I would be out there, like enjoying the time, just taking some time off work as I normally do, 'cause honestly, you wouldn't/shouldn't work all the time. And then I would just-- There would be a little bit of guilt followed, we'd be doing like all the stuff that I could be doing, which I was doing, I just wasn't doing the right things. But the guilt was still there, it's just a pain in the ass to deal with it, like mentally. So, yeah, now I don't really have the guilt 'cause I have everything scheduled. I just go 100% on the days that I'm working and then go 100% on not working on those other days or the afternoons, 'cause I just take a couple afternoons off in there during the week.

That resonates with me. I feel like whenever I lose sight of what I should be doing like strategy wise, that's when I start having like guilt or like this like, lingering stress in my mind. And as soon as I have like... I've mapped out a plan, and I just know that like, if I go look at my to do list, it'll tell me exactly what to do, then like I don't have the guilt or the stress when I'm not working. 'Cause I just I have clarity on what my next steps are, if that makes sense.

Yeah, and the same thing happens for, I wanted to say motivation, 'cause I always thought like motivation was like BS. But when you know exactly what to do next and you see yourself getting to the next stage by doing something similar, or you know exactly what's gonna happen next or at least, you have someone that can tell you what's gonna happen next, then you just are like way more excited about doing it. 'Cause I was at a point where like, I don't really feel like doing this or I should probably just be taking some more time off. I don't know, I was between wanting to take more time off and working harder at the same time. I just didn't know exactly what to do, it was like really annoying. Now it's just like more black and white, right? I'm either 100% on, feeling super good about the day, working 12 to 14 hour days and just enjoying it, and then just resting in between 'cause obviously, I have to rest. 'Cause like the calls make me like super tired, having back to back calls. And just feeling good about it, it just feels very better.

Nice man, that's awesome. So, what do you think your ROI has been so far?

Yeah, at least in the last few... The last 30 days, obviously, I made the money back like, pretty much right away. It was like super easy to make the money back. But I can't really count it. Because just by the end of the year alone, I'll be making, I don't know, dozens of times over like the the amount that I paid you, right? And like I told you, I'm going to keep using this. I'm going to keep bothering you until I get to, I'd say, 50k at least. At the very least, I'm gonna keep bothering you until I get to 50k, right? So, at 50k the ROI would just be like ridiculous, even if it was just for one month.

Yep.

So, really, really hard to quantify.

That's awesome man, that's great. So, when you think back to our sales conversation, why did you decide to do business with me?

Yeah, like I was saying, you had the results to back it up. Everything was like very, very simple. It wasn't like you had all these complicated systems that you would take a long time to set up, a long time to learn. They were probably complete bullshit. And it was like some sort of this smart opportunity that is never gonna work, right? It was, here are the timeless principles, here's how we're gonna do it, here's how we're gonna apply to your business, here's how it works, here's how I'm gonna help you every week, here's what you have to do. Right? It was like very clear, very simple. And I knew, I just trusted. I saw-- I was looking for those principles anyway, right? I just like the timeless principles for everything. So, that converted me right away.

That's awesome. So, yeah, did anything kind of have to kick you over the fence? Or was it pretty much like you were pretty sold on the call or even before the call?

Yeah, I was-- Like, before the call, I was literally like, I just wan ask a couple of questions in terms of availability or how much time it would take for me to implement some of these things or exactly what I was going to be learning about.

Yep.

'Cause I was pretty much already sold way before the call. Right? I wanted to-- Literally, I just wanted to ask you a couple of questions.

Nice, nice, okay, cool. So, would you recommend others work with me?

Of course, 100%.

Who in particular do you think I'm a good fit for?

I mean, any type of coaching or consultants. 'Cause, I mean, everyone that is a coach or consultant, they have like these principles they have to follow if they wanna get like better results. And I know that you created something that really works for any type of niche. So I wouldn't recommend this to a particular type of niche, I think every coach and consultant could use from this to get amazing value out of this. And, yeah, you just focus on the ex-- Like, everything that they have to do. So, in terms of getting more leads, in terms of closing more leads, in terms of delivering clients to better results. That's pretty much all you have to do. So, I mean, any type of coach or consultant, I would recommend it to.

Do you feel like-- Like, did it help that you'd already been in business for a little while and been making some sales?

I mean, it helps to get the results faster, just in terms of getting up a bump, right? So if I was making 10k and already had like a few leads and then you'll teach me all these things, I'd get all those pillars right, and then obviously, I'll get this huge boost right away. If I wasn't in business right away, probably I wouldn't be as confident about knowing, "Okay, if I do this, I'm gonna get 20k for sure 'cause I've done that in the past." I wouldn't be as confident, but I also wouldn't be aiming for 20k if I was new in business, right?

Yep.

So, I think it works for everyone. Because it's like I told you, if I was making anywhere between 5k and 50k a month, like your stuff just works for any stage 'cause it's so simple. And like even staying organic, it's still works.

Yep. Yeah, I mean, I think if somebody is making even just like 2k a month, like you said, 5k a month to 10k a month, like, that is my sweet spot. Because like they know what it takes to make a sale and they've had, they've made some sales, but they just probably aren't doing everything as well as they could. And that's when we can just explode them and... But you're right, if someone's starting out just new, if-- They can work too. But I would say they have to have some competency, they have to have some expertise, some whether professional, technical something that they can bring to bear and actually create an offer around. And if they check that box, then yeah, they can get good results really quickly. There's a couple people that have come into my mind in the program right now who work with us. But, yeah, I think-- Chaz was saying the other day that he was like, this is like-- And he looks at it as like almost like an intermediate sales coaching experience, which I thought was interesting. I hadn't really thought about it like that before.

Okay. Yeah, I mean, definitely, if you have something that you provide like a ton of value and a ton of results for clients, like a particular set of skill. Like I have, like my skill is like super, super specific. I get people to jump on a call with me and say, "I've never seen a guy do this before. This is exactly what I was looking for." Like obviously, I did that on purpose. But if you don't have like a very specific skill or at least the really good results that you can provide to your clients, then its not gonna be as easy. 'Cause you wouldn't get like the client was quite resolved by interviews and all that stuff.

But even if you think about-- If you think about yourself like a few years ago or five, I don't know how long ago, but like, when you were a designer, maybe when you are a designer and you were just starting to think about, "Oh, maybe I should do copywriting as well and I should be a marketing consultant." I think somebody like you would also be a good fit, because you had had professional experience as a designer, you had real, raw skills and stuff like that, that could then be polished up into a specific offer that the market would resonate with.

Yeah.

Yeah.

'Cause at the time, I wasn't exposed to copywriting at all, I was just... I was noticing the things and I kind of knew what it should be there. And naturally, I started doing things that weren't very similar. And then as I was starting to study copywriting, I would see all the patterns, all the stuff that has worked in the past. And really resonating with every single thing that they implemented. If you were to tell me to make the switch from designer to a copywriter like, a few years ago, right? That would be like a tweak in the offer and stuff like that, I would've made it right away, I would have gotten like a boost in results right away. And like I remember like, going from 2k. So for example, the first year that I started... No, that was in the second year. So the first year I did like 10 grand in a year, I was in college. Then the other year I was still in college for 10 months and then I did 20k a year. But I did 15k in a month, right? So I didn't do any money while I was in college even though I was trying every single day and I failed college because of that. I mean, I wasn't doing there... I wasn't doing anything there. But I did 15k in a month. And then I noticed, hey, if I can sell 15k in a month, then it means that I can just get better leads and increase my price. And then in the next year, even though I didn't make money in a bunch of different months for some reason just because of the same problems, 'cause it was inconsistent. I made 60k in that year, right? And I know that I can, All that change it was like increasing the price and just getting a few more leads per month. And now I just keep building on that. And I can keep building until I get from 60k in a year to almost 60k in a month.

I dig it, that's great, that's really good. Okay, so, why should someone listening take action right now?

Yeah. I mean, they should take action so they are not a complete hypocrite, right? 'Cause if you believe that you can get results for your clients, if you believe, if you ever get out of the call and they don't close and you feel like, "Damn, this guy is such an idiot." 'Cause I would be able to help them so much, I would be so excited about this problem, about this project. And I would easily be able to to help them. Just think that there is out there, out there, there's someone that could do the same for you, right? There's someone that could have like such a dramatic change with even not that much work, or at least get you a really good ROI with not that much work. And you just have to invest in yourself as well, right? So, the one thing that I was excited about going with you, is just investing even more, 'cause I know I get excited enough after investing in myself, right? 'Cause I have the clarity. So I just did it and I like doing it. So, if you're a coach, you need to get coached from other coaches. Like, get coaching from other coaches.

And yeah, it-- That's great, that's great. I think about like, investing in yourself, like yeah, it's interesting. There, I think you had said when we were having... Or when we started, you were like, "I understand the psychology of like, if I invest in myself, then like, I know that it will be easier for me to believe others will invest in me."

Yeah. And in specific with you it was more like the price range, right? I wanted to play around with the price range. And, yeah, that was pretty much it. Like, there was something that I wanted to invest in which I didn't tell you, but it wasn't relevant 'cause I had to get to 20k consistently anyway, is there's this other guy that helps you go from 20 or 15 to 20 to 80k in a month, and his mastermind was 30k. And I decided I'm totally gonna be there, and I'm happy to pay for that, but I need to get there in the first place. Right now, I don't think I need it anymore. At least for at least a year or something 'cause I can do most of that with you. Yeah, I mean, that's pretty much it. 'Cause I was excited about investing the 30k, just because I would see myself charging 30k in some way or at least close to that, it would be easier to sell, that's what I was trying to get at. My brain is a little fuzzy today.

You're good, you're good, you're good. Yeah, well, I'm glad that you decided to go with me. For those listening, my pricing isn't at 30k. It's definitely an investment but it's not that. And, yeah. But I think you said like, even investing in me helped you think about your pricing, have more value based pricing, raise your rates, and we're seeing the dividends from that pay off already. So, Pedro, like broadly speaking, like, what would be your number one piece of advice for coaches and consultants?

Yeah, just get coaching from someone that is doing better than you. Right? You're doing well, you're doing... You're miles away from me right now in terms of like, knowing a lot more things and being a lot more experience. You're like, I think you're like eight years older than me, you've been doing this for a few years. And I just wanna buy off that time. That's what I wanna do.

How do you decide? Like, there are a lot of people out there that look better than you, look further along than you, how do you tell other people out there, like how do they judge who to follow, who to listen to, who to work with?

Yeah. I mean, I think the main thing is, have they done it consistently? Have they done it in a reasonable period of time? Have they done it in... Like, have they done it in the same circumstances as you? Right? 'Cause, you right now are pretty much just... It's almost like a solo operation. You might have like a virtual assistant here and there. But it's very similar to mine. And you're hitting a scale that is way better than what I'm currently getting at, right? So, it just tells me that I could be you within a couple years. And yeah, it's just, I'm just really buying off that time and leveraging your experience to get to... Basically, you are where I wanna be within the next few years.

You know why I like it, I think it's good to get into the details on that, 'cause it's like, you wanna find somebody who's one or two steps ahead of you, versus somebody who's like, 10 steps ahead of you. And I feel like--

And there's no way that they can look back and tell you the right things.

There's so many people who their gut instinct is that go with the person like the Tony Robbins or like the Gary Vee of their niche or something like that. And that person is so big, so far along, that there's just no way.

They don't even do the training anymore. They don't even do the training anymore most of the times.

So what you have to do,

So that's even worse. yeah, you have to find that person who's a step or two ahead of you and make sure that they have the social proof, the results to back up their claims. But they're not gonna have the years and years and years for somebody who's in like 20,000 clients or 10,000 clients. But that's kind of a good thing.

Yeah. And one thing that got me like the most curious about your stuff, it's your publishing these like revenue stats for the month. And not only did you grow like stupid fast. So I think at the time you hit 20k it was my first 20k month. But then you took off from there and I just went down and I was like, "Damn, I need support from this guy." Right? And I was also noticing that your numbers were pretty small. Like, you are able to get to those numbers without having, I don't know, 12 hour days, six times a week full of back to back calls, listening to idiots that I wouldn't like to talk with. Right? 'Cause I don't like to talk with people that don't have their goals straight, or they think they're gonna build something and magically, they're gonna have a unicorn, a billion dollar company, that's the stupidest thing. I wouldn't like to spend 12 hours a day listening to those guys, so. Right, its just really about the results and the medium that you got the results and how , right? Very complex to try to break it down now.

Yep. Well, cool man. Well, Pedro, thank you so much for your time. So excited for you. Really, really happy that you've seen the success so quickly. And I'm really confident personally, that it will be consistent and you'll keep seeing that like-- And I think you are as well. So, yeah man, I can't wait to do another one of these with you in the next month or two. Yeah, that would be a good sign. Where should we aim to? What should we aim for next for the next interview?

I think... Well, I'm-- So, let's not worry about the interviewing for your goals. Like, your personal goals, I like-- I think you should do 30k a month and shoot for doing 30k a month like three months in a row. And when I thought in those terms, that's when I went up to like 90 and then 70. And this month is gonna be even lower, like it's not gonna be as high. But I've got other stuff going on in my personal admin and stuff. But yeah, like you said, it's less about trying to be bursty and shoot up. It's more about like, can I do this the same amount like three months in a row? And then when you do that and you're focused on the basics, you can often like slingshot past it and you don't even mean to. 'Cause you're just not worried about stressing about the goal, you're just doing the emotions really well if that makes sense.

Okay, okay, okay. Yeah, you probably shouldn't have told me that. 'Cause now I'll aim for 30 looking at 70, right? Looking up and clicking 70.

We can talk about it on a client call later and unpack it more. So if people want to learn more about you where can they find out more about you online?

Yeah, they can find me at Cortes.design which is my website. They can email me at pedro@cortes.design. And yeah, they can find me on Facebook, for example, you'll probably tag me once this is published. And I'm happy to answer any questions. You can also find me on LinkedIn if you search for my name. But probably, a lot of Mexicans will show up. But you'll just try to find my face there.

Excellent man. All right, well, thank you so much. And yeah, we'll talk soon.

Sounds good, cheers man. Bye bye.

Peace, bye.