Student Interview€0 to €3k/mo

All right, 3, 2, 1. Hey everyone, Brandon Miles here. Today I have Ehab O. and we're gonna be talking about how Ehab sold three of his art pieces in the last month for about 1000 Euros. So let's go ahead and jump right in. Ehab why don't you introduce yourself and tell everybody a little bit more about yourself and what you do.

Hey everyone, my name is Ehab. I'm a full-time artist. I've been doing full-time art since almost a year from now and before I was working as a interior designer.

Nice, awesome, well, very cool. Let's start with this like tell me a little bit more about how did you get into the art world? Was it kind of a seamless transition from being an interior designer or was it? How did you decide to become a full-time artist?

Okay, that's a good question actually. Before I have been passionate about art since I was a little kid and mostly since I was five years old. And it feels for me like I always wanted to be an artist. I started painting since I was five years and I had a good support from my family as well. And whenever someone asks me, what do you want to be when you grow up? I always said I want to be an artist, I want to be an artist. But being an artist it was a little bit tricky especially when it comes to the commercial side. So I found myself studying fine art. I also studied the art in academic way but I got specialized in interior design because I wanted to do something that the market really wants. So I want something to make money out of it. So this is how it started for me. And then I found myself a little bit stuck in my commercial career for like 15 years or something.

Okay, gotcha. So as a young child you were interested in art and you wanted to be an artist but you decided to take the more practical route within that and you got into interior design for awhile. But it sounds like throughout that period were you always kind of working on your art on the side as a part of that?

Yeah, true, I've been working. I always from time to time every two or three years I used to make a painting or do, and like I do a daily sketching and this kind of things like this artistic behaviors. But then in 2017 I got back like more professionally and start doing big canvas and I started to do like, because I'm based in Holland and I did a couple of exhibitions. But it was more not like a professional ones, more like for just a local artist they want to see and gather and this kind of thing. And in 2019, this idea came to my mind that that's enough I just want to do art like full-time. But I couldn't find what way it will be the best for me to start this. So then when the pandemic hit, I think it was the best chance to start something over. And this is how it started. I started my own art business and then try to go a little bit bigger step-by-step.

Cool, okay, great. Well, let me ask you this, what sort of people really resonate with your artwork? What sort of collectors do you typically work with?

Yeah, mostly when it comes to collector I don't try to describe them, but what I've noticed that it's mostly really emotional people who is really more resonate with my art. Because I feel my approach with my art it's more to express really deep human emotion and their effect on human personality. So as a collector mostly when they really high emotion, they can really connect with me on a higher level. But I try to connect with everyone as well.

Gotcha, well, what do you think in particular makes your art unique? Can you tell me a little bit more about that?

Yeah, I think it's because each artist has a journey and what makes them unique it's being yourself, to understand your journey. Every artist when he first started, he get a little bit distracted. He doesn't really know where he's heading or like this. But when the times goes like more, he's working on his art and spending more time on it and he discover what he really likes. And what makes my art unique in my point of view it's more like I try to connect with my collector with it. I try to make this bridge between me and between the one who collect my art. And it started to work really well for me in the last period.

Nice, and so is that doing commissions for them where they get to participate some in the creation of the pieces, that what you are getting at there?

When I first started I used to do more from my own inspiration. I did a couple of series like has to do with my own experience. I have some collector who was really interested in me as an artist so they were really interested in this experience. But lately almost a couple of months ago I would say, I started to do some commissioned pieces and this it's more, I started with something more to make some kind of experience between me and the one who is going to collect my art. It's more like to capture a moment or celebrate a milestone in their life with my original art. So I hear their input and I try to connect with them and I understand their milestone or what they want to celebrate or what moment in their life is really important for them and then I try to capture it. So in this way I make something really unique because it's something I make, it's only between me and this collector. Like more really fully customized for them with my own style.

Interesting, cool, very interesting. Well, let's go back kind of at the beginning. So before you and I started working together, what were you working on at the time? What was your current kind of day to day like?

Okay, that's a good question as well. Actually, before starting working together, I started my own business of art, but it was a little bit I would say, not a little bit, it's more like free styling. I really didn't know what to do because I was really more into the creative side of art and how to create, how to do something really nice for my collector. But I was missing the, it's the most important side of it as well. It's the practical side, the business side of the art. How do you want to sell it? How are you gonna reach your collector? How are you going to stand out between other artists? So before working with you I was just doing some marketing on my own, just doing some Instagram, do some work and just upload it there and wait for someone to ask me, is it for sale or not? So it was something like this more.

Yeah, so it sounds like what you're saying is beforehand you were already spending most of your time just painting, like doing work and looking at this like as a creative outlet for yourself. And then the only marketing you were doing was just kind of posting that product to Instagram and hoping somebody will say, hey, can I buy that?

Yeah, exactly, that was it. And yeah, I keep just waiting and waiting. Sometimes someone comes and ask for it and then I make a sales, but most of the time not. It could be like 10% could happen. I mean, it's really something you're just waiting for the destiny or something like this. So it wasn't really a good way.

And so how long were you pursuing let's call it a strategy? Were you doing that for 12 months or it was just a month? Like how long have you been at it doing that?

To doing my own strategy you mean?

How long have you been going on your own just painting every week and then posting it to Instagram? 'Cause you said something about how you got back started like in 2019. Was it something you've been doing for two years or was it just a year or how long have you been at that technique?

I've started officially. I've been doing that from the beginning of 2020 I would say. And I've started officially trying to establish an art business I would say in June in the summer. Last June I would say. But then it was like, I started my art business but I didn't really know where I'm heading so I was just trying to establish something.

Okay, gotcha. And when people reached out and they were maybe interested in art, would you get on the phone with them and speak to them or would you just kind of talk to them in messenger and then try and make the sale? What was that like?

No, never get on the phone with them. It's like, whenever someone reach out to me, hey, is this for sale? I just send them a new messenger, yes, it's for sale. And then I just direct them to my website hoping that he's going to do the purchase.

So you wouldn't even like try to get the purchase in messenger you would just send them to the site and hope that they would check out there.

Yeah, sometimes I try to, they ask me for the price so then I tell it's like this. So then okay, we will think and then they just disappear. Some of them they tell me okay, we gonna buy and then I send them to my website and sometimes they disappear and some of them they buy. But yeah, it's like one out of 20 like who would buy like this.

I know it's probably hard to remember back but how did it feel at that time? Were you feeling like, well, this just must be the way it is or where are you really frustrated or you're like there's got to be a better way? What were your emotions like going through that period?

Yeah, I remember I was really frustrated. I felt like I knew something wrong was going on but I wasn't really open to ask for help or something like this. And I was really stubborn in trying to make things work. But yeah, because I knew that I wanted to be an artist but why it's not happening. I try to look here and there opening YouTube, see on Instagram, try to find a solution. But just like you hear something from here and there but it doesn't really something you can make use of I would say

Yep, so you were doing a little bit like looking for help but it was always, yeah, there's all this free content out there and it's like it gives you one little piece of advice. But often it's like not the full thing or it's confusing and there's conflicting advice and so you weren't really getting forward progress.

Yeah, there is a lot of advice out there but it's not really practical advice it's just like general things. It's not like they really show you how it works. Yeah, nothing tactical I would say.

Gotcha. Did you feel like, did you know that the problem was definitely with your marketing and your sales or did part of you think, oh, maybe my art isn't good enough, maybe I need to make better art? Was that at all what's rattling around in your head?

Yeah, that's what, I mean, like a lot of thoughts. And the issue is that you can't really define what is it. I mean, you have a lot of thoughts but what you say then, okay, today I have a thought in my mind maybe it's my marketing then I try something different, tomorrow I have another thought. Maybe I need to improve my art a little bit, but then I try something different. And you can't really define what the problem is and you keep trying new things. It's good sometimes to try but it's better if you know what's the issue so you can know in what direction you are moving into.

Yeah, and I'm curious about that 'cause I feel like a lot of artists they think, oh yeah, I just need to make better art. Or like my art is not good enough yet. And they think that's the root issue, right? But yeah, it's complicated and you're right. If you don't have like kind of a mental model about how you can be successful with your art, then you are basically it's like what I say, like you are throwing spaghetti at the wall. You're just trying different things randomly.

Yeah, exactly. It was like this.

So let me ask you this. So you were in this moment and where did you first hear about me and what we were doing?

Okay, I heard first about you actually from a friend of mine, his name is Anise. And he's already working with you since a while like one month before me. And this is a really--

How do you guys know each other?

Okay, we know each other since like almost 15 years. First time I met him in the gym, because we were living in the same neighborhood actually. So we were really close. So I met him first time in the gym and then we thought we found that we have like something in common. And since then we used to work together and help each other and like this. And an issue--

What did you guys have in common?

We have in common, he was architecture and I was interior designer and we used to work with the 3D together. So we have almost the same field of working and as well after graduation in 2010, I remember in Syria before the war started in Syria we had open our our own business together for like interior and architectural design service. But after that everything has traveled, yes.

So you guys you met back in Syria?

Yeah.

At the gym and then eventually you ran a business together for awhile.

Yes.

I didn't know that.

That's really interesting, it was going really well. But after that in Syria things collapsed and then everyone has to find his way and then I traveled and then he's also traveled and then--

You both immigrated to Europe. Did you both go to Germany?

No, actually I went to Netherland and before I was in the Gulf region I stayed there for three years in Saudi Arabia. After that I traveled like five years ago to the Netherland and Anise, I think he was in Lebanon and then he traveled to Germany.

Wow. And you guys stayed in touch throughout all that?

Yeah, this is what I was going to tell you about Anise, he's a really good person and he always tried to help me whenever I was struggling. He even helped me with my graduation project like back in when we were in Syria. So he came to me and he told me, look, I know all of your struggle because you are always talking also about art. I used to talk with him about my business, about my everything and all of this details. So he came back to me and he told me I have a solution for you. I told him what the solution? And he start telling me about you and that he is following, he's enrolled in your program and like this. And yeah, I was really open to it even though I didn't have enough courage to try something like this. But it was referred by like a friend. I know that he really wants something good for me. So it was a really good something to try.

Yeah, tell me a little bit more, what did he say? How did he kind of convince you to take a look at this? Was there anything in particular that he was like, why this is a good fit for you?

Yeah, he actually started telling me about, it's like my problem and it's what I found out also later not only what Anise told me. That's my problem it's not in my marketing style or my art or my anything. It's more like about how I build up my business and how I build up and it's more like in my mindset as well. So in order to get things work he told me like I needed to start everything all over, just to reconstruct everything, just to rebuild it. Yeah, exactly, to start everything from scratches. And it's not about art, it's not about marketing, now I believe that because I've been doing that for like almost one month, one month and a half. And everything, a lot of thing has changed in my head. A lot of really limited belief or like really wrong things that it has to roll in my head. But I think it's completely different for me now.

And so interesting. So it sounds like, just for those who are listening, at this time I'd been working with other artists but Anise telling you about it it wasn't like you were saying, oh, Harry is working with other artists. It was more just like the whole experience he thought it would be useful for you, the stuff that he was learning. It was more about the process and less about the other artists that I'd worked with. Is that what you're saying?

Yeah, it's mixed. Actually he told me like about you already worked with the artists and at that time you've been working with another artist. And he told me and also this is something really encouraged me. Because you already have experience with artists. And at the same time he told me about your practical process. So it was like mixed of both, I would say.

Okay, cool. So as he was telling you about that and you learned, did you do any like little research yourself. I'm curious, like just what peaked your interest in particular? What did you think it was like, oh, like that is probably what I need?

Yeah, actually I went through your case studies of course. I met research myself and I was really impressed how you do things. And whenever I see a video of yours I said, yeah, this is what I needed, this is what I'm missing in my in my business. Because it's not just about making a painting and put it on the wall and waiting for someone to come to pick it. You need to work on it, you need to know how to deliver it, how to connect with people and make some really likes it or at least show it for them so they can like it. So it was like, this is what I really needed when I was understanding more about your process. And after that when we talk together it was yeah, I really understand it and I was really convinced and completely aware that this is what I'm missing actually.

Nice, so let's get into it a little bit more. I know like, we've been working on a ton of things together there's a lot that's going on. But maybe, can you think about what are two or three things, like really good insights or takeaways that you've gathered so far in the last month, month and a half since we started working together?

Okay, so then I'm gonna make like a small comparison between before and how it's like to work with you. So before I was just making like the art as I was saying and just post it on Instagram and then I say, DM, if you are interested and if you want to buy or like this. So in this case, I wasn't really ready to be like full-time art business and make a living out of it. But with you, the measure is different I have experienced it's like, I don't wait for my sales to make it happen, I don't wait for someone to ask me if he's interested or not. And it's not about to go there and make the sales, it's more about to connect with people, to be really interested in them, to show them what to have, to be really close to them. And it feels like I have a method, I have a way, I have something I can apply. And if I do this like 1, 2, 3, I have like steps for example, I can do it. I feel confident, if I do it like 1, 2, 3, then I make results and then I can make a living. So it's more obvious for me I can understand what's going on and I can work on it. And everything also like this is another thing, it's got more like organized. Now, I really understand where is my problem, what issues I need to work on or what things I need to improve. And before I wasn't really aware of what what's going on, actually. And I was always like depressed and I wanted to make my artworks, but I wasn't really aware how and this is the important thing to make a living.

Yeah, well, let's break this down. You're going over a ton of great stuff. So that first thing you were saying, it sounds like what you're saying is, before you were just like sitting back and waiting and just hoping that people would express interest. And now you figured out how to be more proactive and when someone expresses interest you like reaching out and building that relationship, trying to connect with them. And it's not like you're necessarily being pushy or hard selling it's like. But you are taking, you are having more agency in the process. You're taking more proactive steps to facilitate the sale. Is that kinda what you're saying there with that first point?

Yes, it's something like this. It's not being pushy and go out there ask to ask people please buy my art or something like this. It's more like, it's to go out there and show the people what you're doing and be really interested in them so then they will be interested in you in return. So it's about building this interest. It's about being in a good relation with everyone, not just being hidden behind your Instagram and not talking to anyone and just uploading things and hoping that someone will be interested in them. Even if you are really doing really good art, it won't work like this.

So it sounds like you're having a lot more conversations like you are actually getting on the phone with more potential collectors and just talking to people. Is that the case?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it became like something also to me. It feels like I can't make any sales like in the old way. I mean, whenever someone approached me and asked for a painting or something, it feels for me like I want to know who is this collector and why he is really interested in my art. So it's not like qualifying him or something like this, but it's more like feeling curious about him and why he is interested.

That's so cool. It's you've literally like, you've changed. It's like that old way of doing it its like, that's no longer your default or your habit. Your new habit is, you're genuinely interested in the other person and want to know why they are interested in you, what their background is. And that's where you go to immediately now when someone reaches out.

Yeah, true, it's not only about to sell this piece of art it's about this piece of art means something to me. And whenever someone will purchase it, I want to connect with him, I want to understand why he did that, why he likes it. So, yeah, it's more like this.

That's very powerful. It's really good, no, it's huge. And it's like, I can see why when you were talking earlier you kind of reframe this as like a lot of it is a big mindset shift for you. 'Cause it's like you just kind of change your whole approach when someone reaches out and expresses interest.

Yeah, it's really the biggest issue I would say, it's the mindset. Because whenever you change your mind and your thoughts and the most important your limited beliefs about yourself, about your art, about everything, the word open it's door for you I would say.

So let's talk a little bit more, what are some other tactical things that you, some wins you've had. Maybe you could speak to some of the sales that you've made or some of the skills that you've developed, been working on?

Yeah, mostly I'm working on my self skills because it's really important. And it's more like how to get more interested in people and this is what really matter is skills. And whenever I talk with more with people I get really more interested in them. It's not something you are trying to fake or you are trying to make it just to make a sales or something. It's more like you are really out there and you are really happy being out there talking with people. And seeing what really people are interested in. And sometimes you just talk to someone he's not going to buy or you're not trying to make a sale or something. Because you are really interested in their experience and you want to know more about it. So it's more about you building this complete mindset and to change this behavior, daily behavior, it's like to reset yourself I would say. Your program it's more like reseted me. Make like restart for my--

Rebooted yourself. No, I love it. So some artists that I work with, they intellectually can kind of get that but then they are just so desperate to make the sale. They are so really wanting to be successful. They get anxious and they have a hard time actually just showing up and not being attached to making a sale or not and just talking to people. So did you ever have any anxiety or stress around just spending time without really an agenda or really like being thirsty for the sale with people? Did you ever have any anxiety around that? And if so like how did you handle that? How did you get around that and work around that?

Yeah, I think at the beginning, I mean, if you don't make a lot of sales and do you want to make a living and you feel that you just want to make it happen but you don't know why so you become really thirsty. And people will notice that. I mean, whenever you want to talk to someone and you try to sell something, people will notice if you are thirsty or if you are not comfortable. But how do I work with that because in the first place I didn't focus on doing the sales. I focused on improving myself, improving my relation with others, built this interest with other. So the sales comes later in this case. But if you just focus on doing the sales, it won't work like this I would say.

And how did you have the faith and the trust and the courage to take, adopt that attitude? Was there anything that you had to work on personally? Or was it like by talking to me or did Anise give you encouragement? How did you wrap your head around that? If that makes sense.

Yeah, I followed the training.

Just following the training.

Yeah, and I'm already I'm practicing with someone from the group also.

Okay, so having some accountability like meeting up with people and talking to them that helped a lot.

I have like a weekly meeting with a friend from the group also. We're doing two times a week sales training. At the same time I know I'm not perfect. I mean, it takes really sometime to improve and do something. Especially if it's something you didn't, I mean, I used to do some sales when I was interior designer but more it's like when I was working for the company and do the sales for the design itself not like negotiation prices and this kind of thing. But it's more just like to just go out there and try to talk with people and your skills will improve. But I mean, if you are just stay like behind your computer and just hidden you don't want to talk to anyone it won't work.

And so as you've worked on that and you've been improving those skills, have you had examples yet where you've seen where certain things that you said or didn't say basically warm somebody up and made them more of a lead and other things, like turn people off. Have you started to notice how you and the changes that are happening in you are affecting how many leads you are getting and how far are you getting people down the process.

Yeah, I'm telling you it's more, when I really get interested in someone and he gets really interested back in me. I mean, this is how he turns into a lead. It's all about interest and he become really interested in what I'm doing because they like my art for example, some people really likes it. But it's more like about how to make this relation between them. And sometimes you are working on the sale itself but you feel yourself really interested in this experience that you are trying to cover. Especially when I start in the last model which I'm doing with my art like the commission piece and celebrating a milestone and capturing the moment. It become really a fit for me because I think this is what my art was about. And now it's making the match with someone who is really in it.

That's cool, yeah. So it's you're building these relationships with people and now and today when you are thinking about building those relationships. What percentage do you think the relationship has to do with your artwork? I mean, it's not the main point to building that relationship, is that fair?

I think building the relationship it's the main thing.

It doesn't have to do as much as you might think with your art necessarily.

What do you mean?

Well, it's more about you showing interest in them and what they like and stuff like that. And it's not like, and then that's where the relationship stems from, right? More so than just talking and talking and talking about your art and what you think about it and why you like it. Is that fair?

Yeah, exactly. It's not only about my art. Maybe I make a conversation with someone and it doesn't feel like they are really matching or it feels like we're connected for the art or something like this. It's not about every conversation I make I need to make a sales, it's not like this. It's more like just to get interested in people and if it's something really interests me and then I dig deeper and at the same time they do the same. So when this relationship--

It reciprocates, it goes back and forth but you have to take like the first step and show interest in them for that even have that to happen. Gotcha. So tell me a little bit about you've made three sales in the last month or so, how much were those sales for?

I made like approximately 3000 euros.

Yep.

And I would say it was the first three sales to me I made it this way like I approach someone--

How does it feel?

It feels great, it feels like I have my destiny in my hand so I can decide what I do and I can make things work or not, it depends how much I work.

Yeah, it's like making one sale is a flute but if you've made three you're like this is a trend and you know that you can do it over and over again if you just put in the work.

Yeah, of course. Because with each sale, your confident is getting better and better. And also it's more like you become really, it's a flow. You feel like you are really more interested and you feel like you doing it in a better way each time. So it's more like about, you feel like you want to get to know more people, not only because maybe you make conversation with a lot of them but it's not all of them you are making sales. But it's more to get more interested in them and this is when things works.

Yeah, it's like making the sale gives you that confidence boost which makes then the activities that you needed to do, including chatting with people. It makes that more enjoyable and it makes it easier to do that. And like, you probably are starting to feel you are seeing the connection between talking to more people and money coming in the door. And so you are like more hungry and eager to talk to more people 'cause you know that's where the other sales are. They are hidden out there.

Yeah, it's like a challenge for you and then you just want to dive in more and do more of this challenges. And what really makes you really happy and more confident it's like you are making a living of something you are passionate about. I've never thought I could do it this way. I'm not doing any boring thing or I'm not any in a commercial career or like doing things I don't really like just to get paid for it. Like I'm doing what I really love and I'm showing what I really I'm so this is how it is. And getting paid for it so it's really cool.

Well, and I have to ask you now you told me today about I think the most recent sale that you made, didn't the person at the very beginning say, I don't want to buy anything, I'm not going to buy any of your art and then they still bought from you.

Yeah.

Can you tell everybody a little bit about that just at a high level like what that was like?

I was remembering whenever I started this conversation with this person, I was remembering how you told me before that sometimes it takes time you don't have to be pushy. You just need to talk with them and like this. So this person I've made like two quick chat and the strategy session it wasn't official like a strategy session. It was also like a very quick chat but it was mixed between. And I invite them just to get into my process, I just wanted to show them what I'm doing like this. And at the first of the call, they told me like, because they have a really small house and they have a lot of things in the house and the first of the call they told me, you have a nice art and like this but we don't have a place sorry we can't buy anything. But I didn't say anything I told them I just want to talk to you I don't want to make sales or anything. And we started talking about my process. And when you talk about the process, this is when you connect with them actually. Because I was really interested in their stories. I wasn't trying to fake it, like to fake my interest or like this. I was really interested in their story and what they saying. And I reached to a point I could really capture a nice moment in their life. Because at the beginning they were saying that they don't really have a moment. They have bad memories or something like this, but I could really capture really something nice in their life. And when we reach at the end of the conversation, they were really interested in doing this commission. And I was really happy to do it as well because I have something in my mind already for it.

So yeah, it's like you saw, one of my favorite things about sales is you can in slow motion basically see somebody move from being cold to like seeing the value of what you are doing and then being sold on working with you. And it like literally happens in front of your eyes and they may not even, I mean, they probably didn't make any reference at the end about like how they said at the beginning they weren't going to buy anything, they probably just kind of forgot about that by the end. Is that what happened?

Yeah, it could be something like this. And it's really something nice to see because even you when you are doing it, you don't expect it. You don't expect it will happen like this then no, they don't want to buy then suddenly they become really interested and they want to buy.

But if you are not open and receptive, if you're not just like open and saying, hey, we'll just see what happens in this conversation then there's not a chance for that to happen. But because you were open you're like, you can be pleasantly surprised with the outcome.

Yeah, mostly if I compare myself with my old self, if someone tells me we're not going to buy then I tell them, okay, sorry, then we talk--

Hang up right away. Yeah man, it's super interesting, that's really cool. So what about this? Have any other areas of your life maybe on the personal side, has anything improved beyond just selling more of your art?

Of course, it's like as I was saying, it's more like of reconstruction not only your business, it's like reconstruction yourself. I feel like I'm still doing the work, it takes time because it's like a mindset work is really needed. And especially if you like been for a long time and especially if you're like got used on like a special kind of behavior and you want to change it it's not easy to do to change it in one day. But it's like a system, if you stick to it, it will happen. And I felt a lot of improvement on my personal life and I feel like more open as a person. I feel like more without making any sales or talking about any art, it feels for me like more interested in people as well. So it becomes it's like a whole experiment.

So it sounds like it's improving your personal relationships outside of your work and that you are more open to other people and things like that from doing this.

Yeah, absolutely. Other things also improved, it reduced the stress level. I had a lot of stress before and especially because I was doing a lot of creative things. I know I can do some nice things but I wasn't really structured I didn't have the system. And whenever you don't have a system it feels like you have, I want to do this. No, I should do this, no, I got to do that--

So it's just ping ponging around.

Yeah, and your mind it feels like it's getting destroyed from the inside. And then with this, whenever you have your agenda and you have everything structured, you know what you are gonna do and what you are aiming, and you have a milestone you need to work on. I think this is the best experience I have ever done I would say.

Nice, so it's just been helpful to have that structure and those milestones that you know what the next thing is for you to focus on in any given moment.

Yeah, exactly.

Cool, so thinking back to when we started working together and like all our sales conversation together, why did you decide to do business with me?

Okay, why do I decide it? Because whenever I talked with you, I really understand it and I really noticed and I knew that this is the solution would be. Because I've been working a lot and trying many different technique but none of them was working. And when Anise told me that you really need a coach, you need someone to understand this side of business because I wasn't too eager to say I don't know how to do it but I really don't know how to do it. Because I know how to paint but I didn't know how to make sales. I didn't know how to make a business, to run my own business so--

It's hard to admit that sometimes and be honest with yourself that you need help in an area.

Yeah, of course. Every human naturally always try to follow the easy way, it's like the easy path. Maybe I would open YouTube and I learn something or maybe I would ask my friend and he will give me free advice and it will work. So it's more like this.

And you just finally realize talking to Anise that that wasn't going to get you where you needed to be.

Yeah, exactly. It wasn't really about just concentrating on what I'm doing. It's about like, I really need help. I need someone to help me with his knowledge. It's not about and even if I want to learn it it's not something that you can do everything. You just need to focus on what you are good at and let the other do their job. It's all about that I would say.

Yeah, well, was there anything that you remember back like where you were having doubts then you got kicked over the fence, was anything that kicked you over the fence so to speak?

What do you mean by this?

So to be at the very last minute when you are thinking about it. What kicked you over the fence? What were you like? It could be that Anise really just kind of pushed you to do it or it could be that you just thought what's the worst that could happen. Or like, I've been struggling for so long I need to make a change. Like what was your mind thinking that kicked you over the fence at that last moment?

Anise only told me at the beginning but after that it was more like I'm really struggling and my art business is going nowhere and I need to take a step. I need to go out of my comfort zone and try something out. Even though I was really convinced with you and what you have explained to me about how we work like this. But still at the beginning it was difficult for me to make the decision. But then I thought this is what I really need why I'm rethinking over, I just need to do it. Because otherwise, maybe if I don't start with you otherwise maybe I would be now doing like, I'm not sure what would happen but I wouldn't be doing my art for now I think.

Yeah, so it was like everything that we talked about made sense but what kicked you over the fence was just thinking back to like the last year, year and a half where you've just been struggling with your art career and it just hasn't been working. And you just knew that you needed to make some change, what you were doing wasn't working and if you didn't make a change you might've had to put down your art entirely and go do something else.

Yeah, I was trying like focusing on the shiny object I would say like. Like do my website over and over again. I try to increase the prices, lower the prices.

Making ground.

Like photo session for me on my art. Like really things, it really doesn't matter. I mean, it's for me now because now I'm working on my website but I almost forgot that I have a website. I didn't open it since like almost a month or something.

Isn't it 20 where you're at now you probably see like what 80% of artists are focusing on these things out there that don't matter that much and you can see the other artists doing all that stuff. Have you noticed that yet?

Yeah, I've totally noticed that, this could be like okay, I mean, it's not the main thing you need to do. It could be nice if you have Instagram, it could be nice if you have 15,000 followers. But none of this follower like 15,000, none of them would buy if you are not really have some kind of relation or you are really connected.

What you're saying is having more followers doesn't necessarily equate to more sales unless you can build more of a relationship with them and talk to them. Yeah, totally.

Yeah, sometimes I get like 5,000 like on a painting but no one's approaches and ask me how much is this. So out of 5,000, no one isn't interested in purchasing so it's something wrong in that I would say.

Yeah, and that can be really confusing in the moment, I hear you on that. So, well, let me ask you this. Like, would you recommend other artists work with me?

Yeah, of course. I think every artist has this issue with its mind. It's more like a mindset, no matter how creative you are, no matter how good are you doing mixing color, doing realistic or any kind of art you are doing, it's more about your mindset and about to be mentored by someone who really in the business and know how things are done.

Got it, and so as you think about that, what sort of artists do you think we are especially a good fit for?

Yeah, I wouldn't say there's a type of artist because art in general it's for people. So, all artists should be really resonate with you because it's not about their art It's about themselves. To go out there to understand what they should do in order to make it happen in order to make a living of their art. Otherwise it would be always something on the side or something like not making a living from.

Yeah, no, totally. I think what I often think about is like artists, I call them like rookies and professionals. So rookies would be artists that have made some sales but maybe it's still like a little hobby or maybe they have a nine to five job and this is like a side thing. But they are trying to figure out, can I make this into a full-time living and how to do that and how to derisk it. And then also professionals like yourself who've been struggling trying to do it full-time but are having a hard time and they want to really, really be serious about this. Get to 5k month, 10K a month and beyond. Is that what you would think as well or would you add anything to that?

Yeah, I mean, it's more like just to understand that what they really need so they should have a starting point. It's not about doing the art and just wait for someone to buy it. You need to have to starting point, you need to have a system? You need to understand what you are going to do. And from this point you can just hit like a higher target each time.

Well, why should someone who's listening take action right now?

Why? Okay. Because if you want to really make a living from what you are really passionate about you need to take action I would say. You are really not going to regret it and it could be like, for me, I would say it was one of the best decision I have ever made because it's changed my life in a huge way I would say. So I would really recommend, and you've got nothing to lose, you got a lot to win. I would say this for them.

That's awesome man. Really makes me feel happy to hear you say that. 'Cause it's so fulfilling to work with people like you where like literally help you go from not making a living from your art to like making a living and seeing a path of doing it consistently. Like that is a big change.

Yeah, absolutely. It's life changing. I've never thought I would have a way to do it I've never thought I could make a living out of it. So it's really great things to do.

That's exciting to hear.

Thank you or for everything of course.

Well, it's a team effort for sure. I think I can understand what you need to do and I can tell you what you need to do but you have to basically have the courage and the confidence and the grit to keep at it and keep trying and doing things and keep working on it. And that is a testament to yourself so don't sell yourself short with that.

Yeah, of course.

Well, what is your number one piece of advice for other artists that are maybe listening to this right now.

Okay, my number one piece of advice, please stop struggling I would say, And really start to think about the practical side of the business. Art it's not only about mixing and doing nice things. It's about how to promote yourself, how to stand between other artists, how to sell your art, how to make a living out of it. So it's not only about this. So I would really advise them to be mentored and to find a coach that's really helped them take their art on the next level or making like a good base for the future.

Do you feel like, I'm just curious like kind of this on the side. Is it still common or is it just a stereotype, is there like a lot of artists out there that think if they try to focus on the practical side and how to like build connections with collectors and how to sell, do they look at that as like selling out as reducing the quality of their art any way? Or is that just like an incorrect assessment or do you think there are a lot of artists that have that kind of attitude out there?

Like what exactly the attitude. Please can you repeat again?

Yeah, so I could see there being the case where there might be artists out there that think, if I get better at like selling my art, I'm selling out like it's weakening the quality of my art if I get better at selling it commercially. Do you feel there's some artists that struggle with that idea?

Yeah, I think there's a lot of artists have this in mind maybe. That it's art we don't have to sell it or something like this or you're gonna reduce the value.

What would you say to people that have that kind of attitude?

It's not about selling. As I was saying, it's not like to go and out there and tell people please buy my art. It's about go there and show the people your art and try to make relation with them. Try to see what option you have and what opportunity you have out there because you are missing a lot of opportunity when you are not connecting with people. And also maybe you will find you will have a conversation with some people and you don't feel like they really resonate with your art. It's not about just to talk with anyone please buy my art, buy my art, buy my art. It just like it's open a new world for you and this is why you need to go out there not just wait for the other and not just to make this a nice website or just like focus on marketing on Instagram or Facebook or like this. It's more about making it happen. You need to take initiative, it's all about that.

Got it. That makes a ton of sense. It's not that if it's selling means being desperate and begging people to buy your work, it doesn't mean being pushy or annoying. It's just about like you said, it's like showing up more and showing up in the right way where you can build a relationship with people. And if you do it, you actually start getting attuned to you start seeing all this opportunity that was right in front of your eyes, but you couldn't see it before. 'Cause you weren't like on the right wavelength. You weren't looking for that opportunity that was in front of you.

Yeah, exactly it's all about that because of the opportunity it's all over, but you just feel like to act like a rather and you need to catch it whenever it's there. But you need to go out there and talk to people. You never know, maybe you are not going to sell. I mean you talk to someone you're not going to sell for them but maybe it will be like a reference for you. It will be like another kind of relation, it could be something helpful it's not only about that. But to make it work, to make something really good out of it, you just need to get out and talk with people.

Awesome, man. Well, this has been so much fun hearing you talk about what you've done so far. I'm really excited for you really excited of what's next. You've made about 3000 euros in a month since you got started. What's next for you? What are your goals for the next month or two?

Yeah, for the next month I think I'll be working more on my mindset. I need to be more structured and I'm longing to hit like the 10K hopefully within a couple of months. I have this in my mind.

You can do it man. You're right there. It's like, I always tell people if you can get to like 3K a month going, going from three to five and five to 10. Every milestone gets easier because you just have got the skills down. You have the communication skills, the mindset, everything is getting into place and you just kind of get into this flow state and you get more business so.

I mean, it's like a challenge and I'm really excited to go out there and hit it. It's so nice, man.

Well, when that happens, we'll do another one of these we'll catch up again. So if people want to learn more about you and like what you're doing, where can they find you online?

They can find me on Facebook. My name is Ehab O. and also they can find me on Instagram with Ehab E-H-A-B, O., art at Instagram. So they can reach me out anytime they want for any kind of question or if I can help it would be really nice.

Nice, so it's It's E-H-A-B M-O, no, it's E-H-A-B. So it's Ehab O. for those who want to find him on Facebook or Instagram, right?

Yeah, on Instagram Ehab O. and then art.

But I bet if they put your name in they'll see that handle come up anyway. They'll probably see it, it'll be the first.

Yeah, they will find me right away I would say.

Cool, all right. Well, thanks so much, man. We'll talk soon.

Yeah, thanks to you. It was a great.

Cheers, bye.